@Scott
We were pooping on Rachel's journal thread, but:
I was really thinking about myself in that earlier post, but no, I don't think Angie, Rachel, or you will get where they want with that attitude.
I'm not familiar with Stephen's weekly pizza, but planning one meal a week (à la Eat to Win) is a lot different than choosing to eat more than one but less than twenty of any plate of cookies that you walk by.
And you were doing every bit as well as Stephen from June to November this year. What happened in November?
Can we agree that moderation is okay in terms of maintenance? Because if not, then there are so many things that nobody ought to ever have again. Ever. And again, I want to reiterate that I stated that moderation should only be considered DEPENDENT upon where one is in their journey.
For example, If Angie loses any more weight, I might consider flying a sandwich down to her. She is in fantastic shape and in my opinion should not by trying to lose more weight.
For guys like Stephen who have planned into their diet a day with an indulgence... by definition, that is moderation within his circumstances.
So, what happened to me? Well, I came to a planned end of my Round 2 of my HCG program that I was following. Round 2 was not nearly as successful for me as Round 1. For my program I was following a VLCD of 500-700 calories per day and doing this in conjunction with daily shots of HGC. It was a very specific plan with a specific duration to be taken over the course of 47 days for each Round. Round 2 became too difficult for me to sustain. My Doctor who had prescribed the program to me suspected that I was becoming immune to the HCG, causing it to have a lesser effect.
The solution to this is to take time off the program. We had been discussing attempting the program again in March. Since my lowest weight of 278, I put back on about 15 - 20. EXCUSE ALERT... I had stopped worrying about it for the holidays. I had a series of Gallbladder attacks. Cold weather arrived and my walks tapered off.
I'm now trying to get back on the wagon and get things going again for myself. This time I have added a more physical program to my plan... one that I am only waiting on the okay from my doctor to begin. ..and I'm really itching to start.
By the way, my thoughts on the way the author of the children's book addressed Moderation... I am happy to see these kinds of examples in children's books. No parent in their right mind would enforce an zero tolerance policy in regards to cookies for a 6 year old. It is important that kids understand what moderation is and why it is important to practice. I am lucky to have kids who like to exercise and who like to eat veggies. We don't allow daily cookies and we try to encourage good choices and eating habits for our kids. Education is the key. We're tyring to give them the tools they need to succeed in life. It's not about eating only one cookie but less than twenty cookies off every plate you walk by. It's about knowing what environment is right to allow yourself to have that one cookie... as long as it is not a hinderance to your goal.
Maintenance is a myth. We're all swimming against the current and competing against other people.
Good example. How long did it take her to switch from weight loss as a goal to running? A week? A day? Imagine an Angie who starts running compared to one that "maintains"( whatever that means)
That sounds brutal.
FWIW, I find that just posting on here keeps me on the right track, and the fact that you post regularly bodes well for your new program.
What's your definition of moderation? Certainly if I ate 'just one' of everything on offer, I would be very fat. And perhaps I'm not one that others would seek to emulate. I still weigh a significant amount (196 pounds as of this morning, though I expect that to drop under 190 very soon, as I know my body and know that it's just holding onto indulgences from the weekend).
I refuse to go to extremes. I refuse to beat myself up for 1 cookie. It's not a case of 'if I've been good, I can have one'. It's if I want one, then I will have one. And you know what, later on when I want something else, I can say 'Hey, you already had a tim tam today, probably not the wisest idea to follow it with an ice cream'. I wont eat things I dont like for the sake of being skinny. I wont stop eating things I love for the sake of being skinny. I have cut out a lot of foods, but once I was past it, hey I didnt like them so much anymore anyway. I used to eat Mcdonalds everyday (not moderation). Now I dont really like it. I used to love potato chips. Now I dont really like anything with too much salt on. That said, I'm eating a bowl of pasta right now. I still consider that moderation. It's only a bowl, not a plate. It's not something I have all the time. I'm not going to deny myself pasta forever in the hopes of being thin.
Considering we're going with the relatively low bar of extreme being not trying to get a "tim tam" and an ice cream to fit in our mouths at the same time, the upsides are everything related to being healthy and fit; obviously too many to list.
If we limited extreme to being "suffering to achieve some goal for its own sake", that's part of the human condition.
Set a goal, fail, then decide how much you're willing to suffer to succeed. Suffer, fail again. Achieve a state of grace anyway. I guarantee you you'll enjoy it.
That was merely my example. I didn't suggest that both would be consumed at once, just that perhaps if I've eaten one, then the other probably shouldn't be consumed, whether that minute, day or otherwise. Without an idea of what is considered moderation, it is hard to exactly identify what is considered extreme. I dont need to suffer for the rest of my life. If healthy living is suffering, I want no bar of it. Yet, I dont feel the only way to achieve healthy living is to completely eliminate everything that is considered 'bad' from my diet. If I were to take some people's advice on this forum, this would require only eating meat and veg for the rest of my life.
I feel as if I get the upsides of being healthy and fit through moderation, without torturing myself, denying myself.
Not in the least Sam, you should do what works for you, it is working we can see that. I actually don't think any good comes of telling each other how to live, though I made that mistake on Rachael's thread which lead us to having this thread. I think we are confusing philosophy of method discussion with some sort of dictatorial assertion.
My intent wasn't to raise this much fuss, when I told Rachael and Angie to ease up a bit on themselves, mainly because they are both very committed week in and week out so giving some slack once a month is ok.
I think we can all agree that all of the traineolies on here are committed to this process. The way we get to our goal is different in many many ways.
Even those of us who all eat the same "style" are way off of each other.
So if you are floundering, it may be time to readjust your commitment. If you are doing just fine, then go for it.
Sorry Al, I didnt mean for that to come across so harshly. For the record, I agree with the sentiment that people need to not be hard on themselves. Thanks.
Don't worry Mike we have lots of dead animals around here to eat. Not just the babies either, we eat all ages, we are not exclusive around here.
I even have a caribou throw for the guest bed so you can feel what it's like to have an arctic ungulates fur on your body.
I actually really dislike traveling as I like to take my wacky diet with me. That is one of a dozen reasons I love to take my 5th Wheel with me everywhere.
