Alright, after an off-season beach trip full of every debauchery you can imagine including, but not limited to, loads of greasy southern fried foods and countless beers and vodka tonics followed by a four day battle with the worst case of the flu I've had in years and years, I'm ready to get back on the fitness wagon.

I did the first day of the 5x5 beginner program today. According to the website, you're supposed to consume 1g of protein for each pound of body weight. Is this really accurate? I would need around 195g of protein per day? It's do-able, but is going to make for some interesting meat heavy days. Like today, 1 protein bar, 2 scoops of whey protein, and 1 POUND of lean turkey = 200g. Seems kinda weird, but I'm prepared to eat like this for 10 weeks if it will help...

I have a tough time eating that much protein as well. I have a difficult time averaging much above 150 grams per day. I guess it all comes down to doing your best.

Oh the joys of being a shorty. I only weight 118 or so.

Protein powder is your friend.

i consume alot of protein.

Peanut Butter
Tuna
Protein Shakes (2 scoops in 20oz skim milk) x 2
Extra Milk
Chicken
+ random other stuff

Its not 'easy' but nothing worth doing ever is Have to watch what you eat and make sure you plan ahead.

Normal day =
Breakfast
2 PB sandwiches
Fruit
Milk

Snack 10am
Protein shake

Lunch
Tuna
Fruit
Milk or Protein Shake

Snack
Protein shake if not had earlier
Otherwise few servings of PB and fruit

Dinner
Meat
Carbs
Veggies

Toss in the occasional protein bar, snickers or whatever along with vitamins & suppliments and presto 200+ grams a day.

Whey whey whey.

2 scoops is not enough. If you should have at least 2 shakes consisting of 2 scoops and 8oz of skim milk, that's already 100 grams.

Shouldn't be too tough to wedge in another 100, a chicken breast, some yogurt, and beans and you'll be right as rain.

whey whey whey.

I make this stuff I call proatmeal at work, nothing more than two scoops of whey, 8 oz of milk, and a half cup of oatmeal. 600 calories, 55 grams of protein, and a hell of a lot of fiber. Two of those bastards and I am ready to bend metal.

Seriously, go buy a 6 lb tub of whey...then buy two.

I don't know anything about 5x5, but I know 0.8 to 1.0 g/lb is the advice tossed generally subscribed to by bodybuilders. Such diets tend to be pretty heavy on meat, but are also heavily supplemented with whey, casein (milk), egg, and/or soy proteins.

Whey is pretty much the gold standard, as it's cheap (~$.25/scoop), quickly absorbed, and highly bioavailable (meaning your body uses more than it throws away). Casein has its benefits too, particularly before bed, so that it can slowly digest as you sleep, thus keeping your system in an anabolic state* longer. Egg and soy's benefits are that they're relatively cheap, and soy is (usually) vegetarian-friendly. Soy has numerous benefits for women, but guys tend to shy away out of what I believe to be an irrational fear of throwing off their hormone levels. If protein powders are too expensive, you may (it seems to depend on where you live) be able to get by cheaply with powdered milk, mixed about a 50% stronger concentration than the box recommends. It's not the same, but it'll do.

I pretty much agree with the advice so far; a shake at mid-morning and mid-afternoon will get you about halfway to your protein goal. Eggs, beans, and lowfat cheeses also provide protein without the cost or monotony of an all-chicken-breast diet.

-- A.
Keeps a tub of whey protein and a box of powdered milk at work.

* Anabolism is the state in which your body preserves and builds muscle tissue; when you don't eat for a while, your body breaks down muscle tissue to feed itself. Just another in a long line of reasons to not skip meals.

1 g per lb of body weight, others say 1g per kg of body weight, others say 1 g per pound of LBM. It all depends on your workout level.

If you're not weight training like a body builder, 1g per lb is a bit excessive. Whatever you do, make sure you balance that protein with good carbs and fats. Overeat protein in relation to those two, no matter the calories, and your body starts burning the protein for fuel rather than exclusively for building muscle. This isn't so bad from a calorie intake perspective, but it's bad for your general health because of the ketosis strain on your liver and kidneys.

It seems this may only be true if you have kidney or liver disease to begin with.

This topic worried me years ago, but I couldn't find any studies indicating that bodybuilders had higher incidences of kidney or liver damage due to their lifestyles. It might just mean nobody cares enough to launch a serious investigation into this.

On the other hand, high animal protein intake correlates with certain cancers according to The China Study. You can get your extra protein from vegetarian sources, which is what I try to do.

Again this very much depends on your genetic constitution. If you have a naturally slow metabolism then your body struggles to pass the heavy proteins and fats as it take a lot to break down. The longer the meat is in your system, the worse it degrades inside you, causing it to go toxic. Then as you can imagine it will slowly seap into your bloodstream.

Generally, very lean people are in this category. If you are what is known as a 'carb' eater and you struggle to digest heavy meals then be sure to bulk meals out with lots of fibre and roughage to help keep the pipes clear. Oh and loads of water also helps.

I'm finding 1g to 1lb actually quite easy to get into my meal plan with out any need for supplements or whey powders which I really don't want to do - rather keep it natural.

I have a tuna omellete for breakfast
A tuna roll for meal 2
Chicken breast with veg meal 3
tuna pita for meal 4 (split 1 can between this and the roll from earlier)
Turkey breast, or lean steak stir fry in the evening for meal 5
Peanuts for meal 6

That brings me to between 220 and 240g of protein during the day (depending on meal 5's portion).

For what it's worth my ratio is currently 40/40/20 and have seen some excellent results over the last 3 weeks.

Ketosis is only an issue if you have severley cut your carbs, it's very difficult to eat too much protein that will result in any health issues - my P/T has confirmed that with me too recently also (he takes only 25% carbs)

Exactly my point. Don't increase your protein intake so high that you get into that dangerous threshold. You don't have to cut your carbs back; simply increasing protein could get you to those low carb to protein percentages. If you must eat a large amount of protein, you might need to increase your carbs and fats to stay in that healthy zone.

Urine tests can determine if you have excessive ketosis - check for the level of ketone bodies; your doc can tell you if you're in a healthy range or not. I don't know - do body builders get this tested? And again, body builders might could actually use all that protein for building muscle, so ketosis could be a non-issue for them. How many people honestly work out as hard as professional body builders? Most people don't show signs of liver or kidney weaknesses until they have a full blown disease. Just because you don't currently have a disease, don't assume you're invincible and think things that can hurt others won't hurt you.

I read the article, and at no point in a body builder's "diet" did they ever exceed 55% of total caloric intake from protein.

Case closed.

You make a good point Angie about upping the percentages of carbs/fats. One of the key things to the BFFM thing is macronutrional ratio's, and he covers a lot of information about tailoring the carb/protein balance.

I have some 'ketostix' which are used during a urine test, you gauge the tone of the 'stick' to that of a chart to see the level of ketosis. I believe they are mostly used by diabetics?

I'm gaining more and more respect for Tom Venuto. Every time I research nutrition and fitness online, I seem to come across something he's written. He is quick to give references and I feel his advice is very soundly based on science and results! He is very matter of fact and doesn't sugar coat his articles with buzz words and nonsense sayings.

I'm still deciding on whether or not I want to buy that e-book of his...

As far as the ketostix, I've never heard of them!

And Tom's a BAAAAAAAAAABE.

Angie, I have a feeling that most of what's in his book would be old news to you. It's geared much more toward folks just beginning their roads to health than to those already deep into it.

^^That said, I'd highly recommend signing up for his weekly letters and keeping tabs on his blog.

I have his book. Good for beginners. You can research alot of it tho...

Still if you follow his guide and like knowing indepth knowlege on how and why stuff works pick it up if you can afford it.

It's also good for people that are deep into their road to health, but making a lot of mistakes .

I think most the regulars here already have a pretty good idea of what they're doing, though, but could still get quite a bit out of it, even if they know most of it. Probably not worth purchasing though because you can usually get great advice on anything just by asking here.

Traditionally, yes, to ensure that you don't remain in a ketotic state for too long. Testing strips like Ketostix also caught on during the heyday of the low-carb diet, as a way to ensure that low-carbers maintained such a state.

As for your diet, I like the idea of getting your nutrients from real foods instead of supplements, but me myself personally, I don't think I could choke down that much meat every day. There are plenty of ways that whey manufacturers can process their product for sale, but I certainly wouldn't call it unnatural. At its most basic, whey is just the liquidous remains of the cheese-making process; you can find it sloshing around the bottom of a tub of cottage cheese (also a good whole-food protein source).

-- A.

good info here....

i'm going to double up on the whey for 100g per day and then the rest shouldn't be that difficult...

The other reason I prefer to have meat/nuts over whey is the thermic effect of digestion that you don't get with powders and shakes, and for someone like me with a slow metabolism any boost to get the metabolism working is more important than conveniance, although saying that, my diet at the moment despite being mostly the same thing every day is very convenient, and I do sometimes swap meals for others, for example, today I'll be treating myself to a lite sub club (4 meat in a wheat sub), loads of protein and very tasty

I always have my meat protein with veggies or starchy carbs such as wholmeal rolls or pita's which makes it quite easy to eat rather than chowing down on just a whole heap of meat each meal

That's debatable. There is a lot of misinformation or misguided advice, which is only to be expected on an open forum. I like to confirm advice given by reputable sources (with references!). I'm sure everyone would agree it would be foolish to heed any advice given when you don't truly know the credentials of the person giving it!

I'm not trying to knock anyone on this board; I'm just saying few of us are experts, and those that claim to be - well, how do you really know that? Doing your own research is essential.

yah, even among the "experts," however, you'll find instance after instance of clearly contradicting information based on pseudo-science. there's so much money to be made in this industry that it's better for advice givers if there is no general agreed upon consensus about a lot of issues. and even when there is consensus, the underlying principles often seem to be misused.

they're about as useful as a bmi chart for a power-lifter....

it's like all your stars have to align in order to get a proper reading.

That's very true, but I think when a consensus is reached here about something, though, it tends to be much less misinformative than most other sources .

That said, it's always a good idea to confirm advice, especially if you're unfamiliar with the topic.

Nutrition is an evolving science. One day all the theories will converge, and the reasons why this or that works will be universally understood by all, without debate.

We're not there yet, so yeah, the forums are good for hashing out the differences of opinion and results. Traineo is a great forum for that.