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Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 15:49


My husband and I are currently living in the basement of a rather large house in a pretty nice neighborhood. Our rent is low, and we like where we live.

Except that, apparently, there are PSYCHO neighbors.

Our landlord called yesterday and asked us to come up because they'd received some bad news. A city ordinance has been passed for our little neighborhood that prohibits houses from having more than one kitchen. At first I thought they were joking, but they went on about how we can put the refrigerator in the living room, remove the stove for a few months and share their's upstairs, and keep our sink. Or we can give up our sink for the sake of our stove. And then, after this blows over (which could be anytime between 2-6 months) we can have our kitchen back.

I am kind of in shock, and I'm not sure what we're going to do yet. I mean, it's not that big of a deal, and they're willing to knock our rent down by 200 bucks until this is all over, but goodness gracious -- a fridge in the living room and share the landlord's stove?

Who ever heard of such a thing?

Encouragement/sympathy welcome. I don't really know what to do.
Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 15:53


Oh, and by psycho neighbors, I mean that someone in our neighboorhood actually complained that there are houses (in fact, the majority of houses) that have multiple kitchens. So the city decided to take action. What are we going to have to get rid of next? Can't have two washer/dryers? Can't have more than one bathtub? Seriously! What IS this?
Minu ~
The Master
Posts: 2592
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 15:57


Sounds damn messed UP, Monique.

That said, moving the fridge is really not the biggest of deals, and as far as the oven removal goes, how might a toaster oven and hot plate fit into the city's rules 'n regs?

Sorry you have to live near such idiots.
Rachael M
The Master
Posts: 2299
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 15:58


Oh, man. That sucks big time. That is a really weird ordinance. I don't think I've ever heard of something like that. Why do your neighbors give a crap weather you have 1 kitchen or 20? That is really strange. I'm sorry you aren't going to be able to have a kitchen. That is a huge bummer - really. I have no idea how they can have an ordinance like that. That is really really weird.


Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 16:04


Apparently it's to discourage people from renting, but they're allowed to have boarders. What's the difference? we asked. Both pay money -- but boarders share the kitchen. So even though they're trying to discourage renting, they're just calling renting another name and permitting it. I'm so bewildered.

Yes, I imagine that we can have a hot plate, but I've never used one before. And I feel so AWKWARD using my landlord's stove. This is so bizarre. They said that they would lend us a microwave. I guess I'll just start using the crock pot a lot, and the rice cooker, and pray that it blows over soon so that we can have our kitchen back. 'Cause the landlords said that once they came around and checked us off the list for compliance that they'd put the appliances back in immediately. So it's just temporary, but still. Argh!
Minu ~
The Master
Posts: 2592
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 16:10


Hotplates are cool, lots come with two burners and while limiting if cooking for many, it's pretty doable for two. When I first moved to Paris I spent the first couple years cooking this way, with a toaster over for baking. Over here, ovens, fridges and other large apps. do NOT come with the rent, and often not even with homes bought. Light fixtures too, when ya move in it's BARE BONES.

I think it'll all work out fine, especially with a nuker and other small gadets like a crock pot etc.

And wow, this crap is all about "discouraging renters"??? That sounds like something that could be fought and beat in court. Discrimination anyone?

take it easy,

M.
Rob M.
Fitness Guru
Posts: 442
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 16:10


Where do you live? I need to make a mental note not to move there, lol. Although the rules/regulations/laws in Massachusetts are absolutely crazy as well.
Dave Nicholson
The Master
Posts: 2094
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 16:15


In some nicer (read: pretentious) neighborhoods, the owner-occupied places don't want to see any 'apartments', because they feel it lowers the value and appeal of the area... By ensuring that each home can only have one kitchen, you ensure that you cannot have a 'multi-family' home....

That sucks... though if you signed a lease, I presume you did so under the impression that you were renting a place with a kitchen... I don't think this ordinance is enforceable (or even legal)
Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 16:24


I don't think it's legal, either. I work for an attorney (at least until the end of next week), when he gets in today I plan to discuss it with him.

Yes, I did sign a lease with the assumption that there would be a kitchen, but the landlords are being really great about it. They are willing to share their stove with us and lower our rent by $200, as I mentioned, and they also agreed to let us move out without penalty if we want. We love our place and don't want to leave, so I think we're staying with the hope we can have our kitchen back. If we can't, then summer would be a much better time for us to move, anyhow.

I think that my biggest concern right now is how to be healthy if I don't have my kitchen all in one place. We don't have a microwave because to me it promotes unhealthiness. I guess I can just make huge batches of healthy stuff every week and warm it up in a microwave.

At least our rent is going down for a few months.
Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 16:25


I think the worst part is all the remodeling that people are going to have to do. You can't just leave an appliance-less "kitchen" hanging out in your house. What a waste! I think the city should have to pay for that if they're going to force people to get rid of their kitchens.
Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 16:26


Quoting: RMontgomery
Where do you live? I need to make a mental note not to move there, lol.


Utah. But you don't want to live here anyway. Even if you did have a kitchen.


~ Linaeve
Fitness Guru
Posts: 311
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 17:16


One thing you might want to get is a griddle that you can plug in. Between that and your crockpot (which I have used to heat even soup up on high when I don't have access to a stove) and should be covered for not having a stove. I am sorry to hear about this though. I would definately talk to the lawyer you work for about this, although I have heard of this before. Here in Oregon there is a same type of law. There has to 2 doors "separating" the living areas and kitchens. Otherwise it has to be filed as an apartment building... weird...

Best wishes!
Cindy N
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 20:09


What about duplexes, or are they considered two separate homes? I would think landlords in the area will nip this ridiculous idea in the bud. Plus, I've seen VERY expensive homes that have more than one kitchen out of sheer convenience, not because of multiple families living in one home.

Keep us updated, Monique!
Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 20:39


I will. I don't really know what's going to happen at this point. I'm trying to do some research -- it seems as though this ordinance is for new houses being built -- not for old houses that already have multiple kitchens. I don't see how the city can infringe on personal property rights like this.

Thanks everyone! My attorney boss has basically just said, "It's the law." He wants me to sue my landlords for infringing on their contract with us. Seriously? Like it's their fault? Yet ANOTHER reason why I'm quitting my job.


vera gengaro
traineo Newbie
Posts: 11
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 20:49


Hi Monique, sorry to inform you but it seems you have rented an ill-legal apartment. A legal one family home, with an apartment in the basement does not allow the owner to rent out that space. However, not having a kitchen isn't your only problem, most importantly in the event of a fire do you have the proper access to the outside. Living here may seem like a great deal financially but at what cost? Your landlord should give you all your money back and pay for your moving cost. Don't count on the town you live in to not make surprise inspections. If you recall a few months ago a large NY family died in an illegal basement apartment fire and the smaller towns are starting to catch up and realize how unsafe this could be. I'm a realtor in Hoboken NJ and have noticed the same things starting to go on in all the surrounding communities.
vera gengaro
traineo Newbie
Posts: 11
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 20:56


I agree with your boss, it is your LL's fault. He knows he owns a one family home, not a multiple dwelling. He has probably collected rent for a long while and has never had to claim it as income. Now most likely you will lose your home and will have to move and this will cost YOU money. Your LL has pocketed income, and inturn it will be you losing some of your income to find a new place and move! Moving is not cheap or easy. The situation is not fair, your LL should compensate you in some way.
Dave Nicholson
The Master
Posts: 2094
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 20:58


Quoting: verabella
A legal one family home, with an apartment in the basement does not allow the owner to rent out that space.


These are generally state laws. I know in Connecticut that you can rent 'rooms' in a home, which don't require their own exit, kitchen, bathroom, etc.

Quoting: moniquearielle
My attorney boss has basically just said, "It's the law." He wants me to sue my landlords for infringing on their contract with us.


It sounds like your boss is a bit of a jerk. He could easily have discussed it casually and given you something to look into.
Dave Nicholson
The Master
Posts: 2094
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 21:02


Quoting: verabella
I agree with your boss, it is your LL's fault.


Unfortunately, blame only falls on the Land Lord as he is the easiest target. The issue here is with the municipality passing laws that not enforceable or legal, but it's a lot harder to go after the government than it is the little guy. If there are safety issues, I would be willing to bet that there are currently laws in place to address these. This is a ridiculous law and the fight needs to be with the body that is overstepping it's bounds - the municipality.
Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 21:04


I understand if renting the basement is illegal, but it's just so common here (it's a college town), I think that nearly every basement in the area is being rented out. If it's already illegal, then why this "no multiple kitchens" ordinance? Why not just evict renters? Makes no sense ...

So should I move? This is so frustrating! We just moved in less than two months ago!
Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
Post History
 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 21:06


Quoting: verabella
However, not having a kitchen isn't your only problem, most importantly in the event of a fire do you have the proper access to the outside. Living here may seem like a great deal financially but at what cost? Your landlord should give you all your money back and pay for your moving cost.


We do have doors leading to the outside. We have a separate entrance, as well as a huge window in the bedroom.

And how, without being rude, do we request moving costs? They've been so great, I would feel like a real jerk if I demanded that when they've been so good to try to accommodate us. I swear -- if it isn't one thing it's something else!
Dave Nicholson
The Master
Posts: 2094
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 21:12


You could explain that if they intend on breaching the contract (by removing your kitchen), that you will have to move out as this is not acceptable, and that the additional moving costs imposed are also unacceptable.

I wouldn't expect them to pay a couple grand to have you packed up and moved, but renting a truck and buying boxes wouldn't be out of the question.

But again, the goal here would be to have them not remove the kitchen!
vera gengaro
traineo Newbie
Posts: 11
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 # Posted: 21 Feb 2008 23:57


How great could your LL be if they rented you an illegal apartment. Explain to them that you now need to move and this will cause a financial burden to you and your spouse. They did not have your best interests at heart when they rented you that apartment. College town or not they knew better and got away with a good thing for a long time-the gig is up and they can no longer do this. Your apartment may allow access in case of a fire but if everyone is doing this how safe are all the other homes? Imagine a group of kids after a few to many, passed out and a fire breaks out? Your communtiy is acting responsibly in order to prevent a tragedy. I remember some of those college days!
Angie H
Fitness Guru
Posts: 718
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 # Posted: 22 Feb 2008 01:23


Did the LL even know it was illegal before the recent uprising? That's what I'd like to know. If it were an oridinance... city or neighborhood... would these types of "rules" have to be disclosed at closing, or not?

I'm curious myself, as I've moved into a new neighborhood that apparently has certain restrictions (no cars parked on the road, etc.), but we never saw anything at or before closing, nor signed any agreements that people who bought land and built their own houses in this neighborhood did. I wonder if things like this are enforceable without proper disclosure to the owners?
Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 22 Feb 2008 02:45


Quoting: fauxvirgo
Did the LL even know it was illegal before the recent uprising? That's what I'd like to know. If it were an oridinance... city or neighborhood... would these types of "rules" have to be disclosed at closing, or not?


No, they were completely unaware. The apartment isn't illegal, that's not the problem. The city says that tenants are fine -- they just want to discourage it. So they're making issue of the kitchens. We're hoping that we'll be able to have it grandfathered in and not be a problem anymore.

Also, the LLs weren't informed of this at closing -- I don't even think it was an ordinance until after they bought the house -- with the kitchen already intact. I believe that these things are enforceable, just like announcing service of legal papers in a newspaper -- just because you didn't read it doesn't mean you weren't "informed." Stupid. Stupid stupid stupid.
Monique Kamosi
Fitness Guru
Posts: 246
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 # Posted: 22 Feb 2008 02:46


Quoting: verabella
How great could your LL be if they rented you an illegal apartment. Explain to them that you now need to move and this will cause a financial burden to you and your spouse. They did not have your best interests at heart when they rented you that apartment. College town or not they knew better and got away with a good thing for a long time-the gig is up and they can no longer do this.


They weren't aware, and we're their first renters. They really are trying to make the best of this. Thank you for your advice, though. If things get really rough I may consider asking for a little moving help.
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