I don't understand where you obtained this thought process from? I'm not saying it is ok to miss goals, I am saying that goals or little milestones along the way and shouldn't distract us from where we are actually trying to go. They are such a small part of the journey, I don't think they deserve the undivided attention we give them. Because as we are chasing them we forget WHY we set the goal in the first place and lose adequate reasons to push for those goals.



This is the exact point of my thread. This is a very sad comment that worries me. It places goals as having greater importance than the ultimate dream because it is more realistic. We have been conditioned to be realistic, and realism is just another illusion. How can we live life avoiding our dreams because they are not realistic, and so settling for hitting a mini-goal. If we can't dream then we are not living, and existing to hit goals is nothing more than existing in a world that has us contained and denies us the opportunity to expand to our limits.

Without the dream, the goals has ZERO value. I know what its like to force myself to hit a goal and succeed everytime. Its not what its cracked up to be and it won't lead you to your dreams. My own bloody mindedness was dragging me away from them making the gap bigger.

The worst crime is not to miss your goals, the worst crime is to hit your goals and feel no satisfaction in the achievement. That's when you know you chased the wrong path.

great thinking, and i agree.

i admit i haven't read this entire thread, so i apologize if my post doesn't fit in it. you ask, what is the point of all of this? my point is this (time for a little story):

i'm young, or at least think i'm young (25). i was weighing in at 220lbs, and couldn't run a mile to save my life. i had a doctor back when i was in my earlier 20's, he told me he had friends from MEDICAL school who had already died from heart disease because they ate horribly and never exercised, he was in his 30's then. fast forward back to present day. i have a kiddo who i was worried would pick up my eating and lazy habits, also my wife has stopped eating well since we got married. so my point is that i want to be healthy so i can see my little one (and future ones grow up), to influence my family to live well, and if looking good is a side effect: good (great!).

later on, i apologize for the above rambling.

also, i agree with Minu about taking an internet break. i have done that on several occasions.

Dreams are more important than goals??? Interesting thinking. So you are saying, that meeting a goal doesn't feel good? You must not have the right type of goals or are busy thinking about your DREAMS. I am just saying that it is not the way I think. So if I dream about running a marathone one day, I should keep dreaming about that and not be satisfied with meeting a fitness or weight loss goal??? Everytime, I meet a goal, I know 100% that my hard work and dedication is paying off.

Are you saying that being a realist is wrong? Wow, I guess I totally disagree. 100% positive UNREALISTIC DREAMING will disappoint MANY people and this is why MANY people give up on weight loss and getting healthy because they set a DREAM of losing a certain unrealistic weight by a certain date and they give up.

And no you should never lose sight of your DREAM. One of my dreams is to be at a certain bodyfat %. Do you think if I didn't set mini goals of certain weight loss by certain dates, that my DREAM would ever seem like it MIGHT be right around the corner? Absolutely not. IF I would have ONLY put my dream on paper and a year later, I was no where close to it (which I am not), I would have been VERY disappointed. However, since I had a goal of losing 100 lbs or being a certain weight by a certain date, and those were achieved I feel I am getting closer and I feel a LOT better. For me, it keeps me motivated. Now, I know as I lose the weight, I will get closer to meeting my overall "dream" and goals.

Hi Fred,

I think you haven't followed where I am coming from for the whole journey of this post. Yes, I do 100% maintain that dreams are more important than goals as without the dream how do you generate the goals, or milestones in the first place? They aren't just plucked out of the air they are chosen as they lead toward the dream. The dream is the destination, and the goals just logs that you are staying on track. With that I am in total agreement with you.

The subject of realism is a whole other topic and one that I don't want to pursue too far on this thread. Reality is merely based on perception, and there is NO such thing as a standard reality, so I personally place very little value on realism. Optimism, pessimism, realism? They are all right and all wrong depending on who's perception we are looking through.

You have actually taken stock of this system in a way by aligning your goals along the path to a bodyfat % then building goals toward it. Thats the sense I'm talking. However, a lot of people I work with build their goals before they decide where they ultimately want to be. Using this system the goals aren't actually taking them any where, and as they realise this they fall off the wagon and miss their goals. Even if they do hit these goals, they are often the wrong goals which is where dissatisfaction can occur. I only celebrate hitting my goals when I know in my heart of hearts they are taking me towards MY dreams. Everyday I hear goals based on other peoples dreams, based on fitting in, and based on so called realities and norms. These people are not inspired to hit these goals, they just feel pressured to hit these goals to feel accepted. That is what I am trying to say when I urge people to start with the dream and build a path toward the dream.

From my experience Fred you are an increduble asset to Traineo and have inspired us all through your results and the way you are constantly expanding. However, I would put money on the fact that you have a superior mindset working for you that you are unaware of as it is so simple for you and also that the motivation that drives you is a hell of a lot bigger than a bodyfat % figure. A bodyfat % is just a number, so why would it be so important to achieve if it wasn't part of a bigger picture?

I've enjoyed your feedback though, and it has helped me clarify in my own mind what I am trying to say.

I couldn't agree anymore with this. Many people do not realize it is a journey nor do they understand that it takes to get to their dream/ultimate goal.



Thanks. You are right, my BF% goal/dream is part of a bigger picture (sort of). The BF % goal/dream of mine is what helps me with the "image" I want to have at the end of the journey (even though there really isn't an end). You may not agree or like my "dream", however, that is what drives me to make the right choices when I have to choose between eating a piece a cake vs. not having it. My "dream" is ALWAYS in my mind when I am making decisions (eating, waking up at 3am, going for drinks, etc.). Unfortunately (or fortunately) because of my past, I have to have this "dream" in my head EVERY single day as I make choices.

Thanks for starting this thread. I always like to learn how people think as they are on their journey.

Sounds perfect to me, if your dream inspires you to a level that means you don't have to rely on willpower. Willpower is finite and runs out, but dreams don't die so easily.

You truly provide an example with your mindset, thanks again for getting involved with this thread.

Wow, what a great and long thread. I was going to follow up on this, but so much has been said already. It seems to have come to a head with having a dream and aligning our fitness/health goals within the dream. Well put Dean. Cheers!

How do you encourage people to start with a dream, Dean? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I know from my own experience I felt a lot of what Fred mentioned earlier. At one time, I was overwhelmed and pessimistic about my ability to reach some of my dreams. They just seemed too lofty and unattainable, even though that turned out to be totally false. What I ended up doing to start out was flat-out forcing myself to make changes. I really had to focus on each and every day, without looking at the big picture at all. It just overwhelmed me too much.

I think a lot of people benefit from starting with small, attainable goals and slowly widening their view to include the entire journey. As I started building upon small successes, I was able to broaden my horizon in such a way that I'm making changes throughout my life, not just in regards to weight and exercise.

Hi Cindy,

Your view is very common and I completely understand where you are coming from. Dreaming and thinking of the bigger picture is easier for some than it is for others, and I have a lot of experience dealing with people who struggle with this area.

In virtually all of these experiences, the problem came down to a confidence/ belief issue that could have come from mindsets they adopted from very early ages. You hinted that you question your ability to reach your dreams, and have doubts about reaching them. Unlike most doctors and therapists in the west, I believe in working with the problem and not battling with the symptoms. I don't know you in any depth so I certainly will not make any attempt to judge you, or tell you exactly how you should be, so I will say it like this.

'If you are heading in the right direction, all you have to do is keep walking'

If you have to force yourself along a journey, then you should qusetion whether you are heading the right way. When you are on the right path that resonates with your dreams and your heart, your burden will always be light, and the journey will be a beautiful experience from start to finish. So my ultimate point is know where you are heading. Then keep walking in that direction. If you don't know where you are heading, how do you know you are going the right way? It is this uncertainty that often sabotages peoples goals.

Think of it as a physical journey, say from New York to Sydney. And say you have to start on foot. The first question is which way do I need to start walking? Now when you look at the map, it is unlikely you will draw a straight line between the two points and just go. It is also unlikely that you will walk it in one day, so you set goals/ milestones along the way to track your progress. I plan to be at point x in a week, and point y within a month and so forth. See, having a bigger picture gives more meaning to the smaller goals, and they are easier to ascertain as you know where you need to be. Also, it makes you realise just how many options there are to achieving the goal. Each person will approach it differently and they could all be right. Someone may just set a goal to save the money and buy a car and a plane ticket, someone else may ask a friend for a lift to the tube, etc... All it means is that you know exactly where you are headed, and your mini goals are directly relevant. Now imagine you didn't know you wanted to be in Sydney, and from New York you started walking in the opposite direction. Each day you will start to drag your feet, a bit more, get tired quicker as you can't resonate with the journey, and in truth you don't really know why, you just know how you feel. Then one day it dawns on you that you wish you had gone to Sydney and realise you would have been closer to your dream if you hadn't moved at all, cos now you have to run back to the starting point where you was before you put all the effort in. Like any journey, you will have set backs, experience obstacles, have to detour around things, but the grid bearing that you are aiming for will always keep you on track and stop you straying too far from the right path. This is a crude way of putting it, but I hope it explains my theory a little further.

Yes, we all need smaller goals, I agree. However, start with the end in mind and work backwards to today. You'll be surprised how small those lofty goals are when you break them down. You just have to believe that you can, (and I'm telling you that you most certainly can), and make the conscious decision to reward your heart with the life that you desire with every ounce of your body.

Take Good Care

Dean

I LIKE THAT.

Yer such an inspired egg, Dean.

M.

I gave up on this discussion because I thought it had ended, and I've been holding back a little something I'd now like to share in its resurrection. I wholeheartedly agree with your methodology towards life Dean; nothing could enrich the human soul more. In fact, I'm more-or-less walking my life’s path in much in the way you describe. My view of the world today compared to just five years ago is night-and-day. And I guess this is my point.

It took me many years to change my view of the world, and my place in it. That, unfortunately, is not a switch that gets flipped overnight. So getting back to the original question of 'what’s the point of all this?’ with regards to Traineo, I see it as helping people get started with the challenging changes they're seeking. I think an argument could be made that it takes less time to loose 50lbs. than change ones mindset.

I see this methodology as one that needs to be practiced in tandem, not prior to, getting ones kester into the gym and on a better diet. So in the early days of changing ones lifestyle, and partaking in these forums, there will be moments of nonsensical silliness, focused tips on technique and struggle. I think the big picture message would be delivered most effectively by interlacing it with these lesser discussions. This is a great place to plant the seeds of dreaming, and I look forward to your continued inspirational posts Dean.

Cheers!

And I like that too.

Major change, by nature, takes time, "baby steps", and all that good stuff. I know I didn't get my arse closer to shape in a heartbeat, and I'm still learning more each day about this body-science, which is connected now more than ever, to the spirit-science part of me.

It's a pleasure to be sharing some cyber-space with y'all.

And with you as well Minu. Green, that's a nice color on ya. Just keep walking, right! Cheers!

Cheers, back, Jeff.

These boots are made for...

Ya, but not all over me I hope! I haven't been a messin'!

Related to this thread, there is a book entitled "Stumbling on Happiness."

After reading, I'm not so convinced that every human out there must lock themselves into the idea that their dream at age 11, 15, or 20 is necessarily the only one true path, that they must follow without deviation from the compass.

Sure, for some it is, and for sure it's hard to imagine Beethoven being anything else but an all-time great composer, or Einstein being anyone else but who he turned out to be ... but it may not be the same story for all.

Eric Clapton was a stained glass artist, for example. And I'm sure there are many people have changed course as they pursued their muse.

Anyway, an interesting and readable book if you happen on it (not a self-help book either) ...is "Stumbling on Happiness" by psychologist Daniel Gilbert.

Here are some insights into the thing by Amazon Guest Reviewer: Malcolm Gladwell ( author of bestselling books Blink and The Tipping Point, and is a staff writer for The New Yorker.)

Several years ago, on a flight from New York to California, I had the good fortune to sit next to a psychologist named Dan Gilbert. He had a shiny bald head, an irrepressible good humor, and we talked (or, more accurately, he talked) from at least the Hudson to the Rockies--and I was completely charmed. He had the wonderful quality many academics have--which is that he was interested in the kinds of questions that all of us care about but never have the time or opportunity to explore. He had also had a quality that is rare among academics. He had the ability to translate his work for people who were outside his world.
Now Gilbert has written a book about his psychological research. It is called Stumbling on Happiness, and reading it reminded me of that plane ride long ago. It is a delight to read. Gilbert is charming and funny and has a rare gift for making very complicated ideas come alive.

Stumbling on Happiness is a book about a very simple but powerful idea. What distinguishes us as human beings from other animals is our ability to predict the future--or rather, our interest in predicting the future. We spend a great deal of our waking life imagining what it would be like to be this way or that way, or to do this or that, or taste or buy or experience some state or feeling or thing. We do that for good reasons: it is what allows us to shape our life. And it is by trying to exert some control over our futures that we attempt to be happy. But by any objective measure, we are really bad at that predictive function. We're terrible at knowing how we will feel a day or a month or year from now, and even worse at knowing what will and will not bring us that cherished happiness. Gilbert sets out to figure what that's so: why we are so terrible at something that would seem to be so extraordinarily important?

In making his case, Gilbert walks us through a series of fascinating--and in some ways troubling--facts about the way our minds work. In particular, Gilbert is interested in delineating the shortcomings of imagination. We're far too accepting of the conclusions of our imaginations. Our imaginations aren't particularly imaginative. Our imaginations are really bad at telling us how we will think when the future finally comes. And our personal experiences aren't nearly as good at correcting these errors as we might think.

I suppose that I really should go on at this point, and talk in more detail about what Gilbert means by that--and how his argument unfolds. But I feel like that might ruin the experience of reading Stumbling on Happiness. This is a psychological detective story about one of the great mysteries of our lives. If you have even the slightest curiosity about the human condition, you ought to read it. Trust me. --Malcolm Gladwell




From Publishers Weekly
Not offering a self-help book, but instead mounting a scientific explanation of the limitations of the human imagination and how it steers us wrong in our search for happiness, Gilbert, a professor of psychology at Harvard, draws on psychology, cognitive neuroscience, philosophy and behavioral economics to argue that, just as we err in remembering the past, so we err in imagining the future. "Our desire to control is so powerful, and the feeling of being in control so rewarding, that people often act as though they can control the uncontrollable," Gilbert writes, as he reveals how ill-equipped we are to properly preview the future, let alone control it. Unfortunately, he claims, neither personal experience nor cultural wisdom compensates for imagination's shortcomings. In concluding chapters, he discusses the transmission of inaccurate beliefs from one person's mind to another, providing salient examples of universal assumptions about human happiness such as the joys of money and of having children. He concludes with the provocative recommendation that, rather than imagination, we should rely on others as surrogates for our future experience. Gilbert's playful tone and use of commonplace examples render a potentially academic topic accessible and educational, even if his approach is at times overly prescriptive. 150,000 announced first printing.(May)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

I read your response this morning and thought on this some more today, and I realized that even though I did hyper-focus on the baby steps at first, I still had an end destination in mind. It was tucked in the deepest, darkest corner so as not to overwhelm me with its greatness, but it was there.



You may find it interesting that I actually grew up having very high expectations placed upon me rather than suffering from a lack of confidence. Parents, teachers, even friends expected a whole lot out of me. That is the biggest reason why the big picture was so overwhelming for me.

I do speak mostly past tense, because I have found a much better balance now. I am able to embrace the dreams, and that is actually what has spurred me to my recent successes.

I really enjoy your messages, and I think you have a lot of great advice, Dean. But even something as cut and dry as a math problem can have more than one way to reach the solution, and I hope you'll consider that some aren't emotionally or spiritually ready to know the end result right away. Just like a small baby can't be expected to walk, some people need a teacher to set the lesson plan for them until they are ready.

Guess who was always the one who did math problems the other way?

This thread has dragged on and it probably is high time I signed off, however I did want to say a quick thank you for all of the input before I turned my back on this.

Jeff gave some great wisdom and insight and I appreciate his contribution. Also, as Cindy pointed out, there is no single best way, it does have to be in line with who YOU are and that does vary for all individuals.

Thanks again for your involvement, I learned a lot from this myself as often when you give advice, it is often the best advice for yourself at that very point in time. Funny how the world works sometimes, and it helped me clarify my angle on this topic.

'Those that lecture don't know, and those that know don't lecture'