I'm not sure if I'm using the right word even, but I'm wondering how I can avoid burning muscle tissue in stead of fat tissue when I work out?

For what it's worth, I'm 22, 5'10" and 280 pounds and I'm currently eating between 2500 and 3000cal with an approximate ratio of 40% from protein, 30% from carbs, and 30% from fats. (so says my fitday stats)

My exercise routine is : Monday, Wednesday, Friday are primarily weight training days (doing more or less the whole body in each session) with ~10-20 minutes of cardio afterwards. Then Tuesday and Thursday are cardio sessions (usually 20 minutes elliptical, 20 minutes stationary cycle, and 20 minutes recumbent stationary cycle). Saturday is my flex day, usually playing cardio intense soccer or ultimate frisbee with friends.

From what I can understand you burn muscle while exercising if you're either:
1) on a starvation diet when working out, or not getting enough nutrients?
2) exercising "too hard"

So assuming my diet is getting me enough nutrients, how do I quantify exercising too hard? Is this a matter of strictly watching my heart rate while working out?

Should I even be concerned about this? Is there anything I haven't even considered here? Any advice would be appreciated!

I'm a nearly graduated nursing student and i will try to explain this to you.

Basically, the first 20 minutes of SLOW exercise you're burning sugar from your blood stream.

After that 20 minutes, you begin to burn fat. The way this was described to me best was like lighting a fire. You try to light a log on fire (your body fat) it wont catch. You use kindling and paper to start it (sugar) you're great.

Thats how you loose weight, so your weight training days sound great, however I would suggest you switch it around and do the cardio first.

Also, and don't take this the wrong way, but if you've been fairly stationary until now and you have this INTENSE routine (which I would call borderline too hard) your body doesn't quite work as fast as someone who has kept up minimal exercise. I think that its great that you are doing this but you should REALLY start slower and work your way up.

And if you're getting burning in your muscle, then thats a good sign you're working out too hard. That burning is lactic acid. You aren't going to Ketosis, that suggests a change in your blood pH and buddy if that happens, get your ass to the hospital fast. THats what happens when diabetics pass out from low blood sugar.

Two important words you need to know are Anerobic, and Anarobic. I'm sure I spelt that wrong and I apologize, its been a while since high school biology for me! But Anerobic means there is NO oxygen going to your muscles (essentially) so your mulsces are working, but theres no O2 going to them so they produce Lactic Acid as a by product with makes your muscle cramp up.
If this is happening, its because you're body isnt used to this output, and your heart is pumping enough blood with 02 in it, or maybe your lungs aren't working well enough yet.
The keyword is YET.
You'll get there, but maybe slow it down a bit.

Hope I didn't confuse you!

Just a clarification: Ketosis isn't something you need to get to the hospital over. (You're probably thinking ketoacidosis?) For low carb dieters, 'ketosis' happens when you start converting stored fat back into energy. Low carbers stay in ketosis for weeks or months.

Charlie
Back to the Fridge

Branched Chain Amino Acids

bling blang

You wont burn muscle instead of glycogen if you exercise too hard, you will burn it if you exercise too long. Thus, steady state long term cardio is teh devils.

I notice you do a lot of short 20 minute workouts on cardio machines, provided those are high intensity you should be fine.

If you eat well, lift, and keep your cardio in the high intensity regime, you shouldn't ever have to worry about burning muscle.

Honestly, at your bodyweight you are still in the "anything done at the gym will work" phase. You are far from intensity plateau, and you probably have another 40 or 50 pounds to lose until you need to start concerning yourself with this sort of thing. Keep doing what you are doing, and worry about ketosis, carb cycling, and acidosis from anaerobic threshold later.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Your_Carbohydrate_Requirem ents

As a low carb dieter I love being in ketosis, no sugar cravings.

Nail, meet Mister Hammer. Here's here to hit you directly on the head.

Personally, the routine I stuck with during my weight loss phase was: 4 days of weight lifting per week and 3 days of cardio. During my lifting sessions I didn't do any cardio (whenever the days overlapped they were spaced out by several hours and at least one meal), and my cardio sessions were 30 minutes of interval running or ~15 minutes of HIIT. No workout ever took more than 40 minutes but they were always HARD workouts. Over the first six months I lost an average of ~13lbs and ~3% of body a month (totals: 80lbs and 17% BF drop) while maintaining my muscle mass so that's what worked for me.

Yeah.

I mean, I do barely any cardio. Sometimes I row for 4 or 5k because it's goddamn torture, and rowing (done properly, read: low rate) gets the kinks out. I am still progressing as far as adding muscle and losing fat, but the curve has gotten steeper and I recognize the fact that my old ploy of lift all the time, eat well may not work all the way to Zion. But so far I remain adamant that if losing weight is your goal building muscle is priority, a well thought out diet is second, and cardio is a far distant third.

Same top three for me, but I wouldn't say cardio is a distant third, but it's still third; the right kind of cardio is going to do wonders for you, but it depends on your goals. If you don't have specific endurance goals (5k, marathon, etc.), you don't ever need to do more than 30 minutes of cardio and intervals are always going to be better. Plus, those first two on the list (build muscle and eat right) pretty much go hand in hand... they're so closely coupled...

thanks for the advice guys! I've modified my workout to no longer do cardio after my weight training, but plan on adding a cardio focused workout on saturdays to compensate.

Katie Bradley wrote: "You aren't going to Ketosis, that suggests a change in your blood pH and buddy if that happens, get your ass to the hospital fast. THats what happens when diabetics pass out from low blood sugar."
It is important to clarify that this is NOT what happens to diabetics. Ketoacidosis is what happens to diabetics when their blood sugar levels are way too HIGH (although going too low will make you pass out and is an emergency as well). It is an emergency situation, but it would be wrong to give this person sugar things to raise their blood sugar levels. A glucose IV would be a disaster at this point. Also, unless you are diabetic... you will not face this problem from what I understand.

Nice answer Katie, and for a definition of ketosis

The transcript of the link George provided ends with, "Your body is forced to break down this fat abnormally, which results in headaches, nausea, low energy - you know, side effects."

I'm not sure what's "abnormal" about a normal bodily function. Your body stores energy for future use when it needs it. This just creates that need.

Granted, the low-carb diet isn't for everyone, but that doesn't mean it's for no one. I employed it successfully for nine months and lost over sixty pounds. I didn't have headaches, nausea, low energy - you know, side effects -- at all.

Charlie
Back to the Fridge

OK, headaches, nausea, low energy.... marks of extremely high ketones in your blood ... usually the result of ketoacidosis in type 1 diabetic with sustained blood sugar levels over 300(?) or so.
Also could be the result of someone doing low carb diet incorrectly. IE: Not taking quality supplements, drinking sufficient water, doing their exercise and balancing the rest of their protein, vegetable, healthy fat intake. Not monitoring their ketone level to maintain MILD range ketones... never more than that.
For an insulin resistant person this diet done correctly (following ALL the drs. instructions) will result in a clear mind (no headaches) and increased energy minus food cravings. THIS IS A TEMPORARY DIET... never long term (mild state of ketosis). You will burn fat and build muscle if done correctly. And, more importantly, redirect your endocrine system which is becoming disfunctional.
It is not a diet for everyone. Perhaps this is where the misunderstanding comes from. If muscle building is purely your goal... there is probably a more appropriate method for you.

NOT A GOOD IDEA

Perhaps it would be helpful to realize that a ketogenic diet (low carb based) is used successfully in treating epilepsy. Again, we are talking mild ketone levels producing beneficial results to a malfunctioning body.
Diabetic ketoacidosis is a completely different animal. Similar to treating emphazema and bronchitis as the same thing. Same body components involved... different needs.
See:
http://mayoclinic.com/health/ketogenic-diet/AN0188 7

I'm starting to think we're not all talking about the same thing.

Bingo. That's my point. Many fitness "experts" see ketones, read about ketoacidosis and believing they are one and the same offer warnings about this low carb diet approach. This diet is not for everyone, but the warnings many have issued simply do not apply IF DONE CORRECTLY.

Now, if you take this misinformation and apply it to your diabetic friend who is exhibiting the syptoms of ketoacidosis (because you heard all about that) and thinking they are suffering from LOW blood sugar... you might force them to ingest more sugar. This will potentially kill them. (They have high glucose levels, you need to get them medical care and push fluids.)

That's why I care about making this distinction clear. I'll get off this thread now.

The problem with advocating anything IF DONE CORRECTLY on a public forum with uninformed people is that they WILL DO IT INCORRECTLY. Sad, but true. Keep that in mind when you post.

True, but if that's the case, then we're not allowed to talk about dieting AT ALL because we're all bound to say something at some point which someone misinterprets.

For the vast majority of people, the low-carb / ketogenic diets are not killers. Most of the warnings only apply to people with pre-existing conditions, and the standard disclaimer of "see your doctor first" still applies.

The bottom line of this part of the thread is that going into ketosis on a low-carb diet is patently not the same thing as ketoacidosis. That's all.